When are people going to get real? This is not going to happen, and even if the pastoral provision is extended and the Anglican Use is extended why does anyone imagine that a large number of Anglicans--corporate or otherwise are going to come into communion with the Catholic Church?
There are several reasons why not. First one is that any Anglo Catholic group in the USA or England would have to give up their beautiful building, their vestments, their organ, their candlesticks and chalices and altar hangings and statues and copes and monstrances etc etc.
They'd have to say an Anglican Use Mass in the local Catholic Church wearing day glo polyester vestments or launch out and find new premises and buy new kit. The vast majority won't do that, and if they had the courage and faith to do such a thing they'd have taken the step and left the beautiful buildings behind already and become Catholic. Second thing is that their leadership would have to step down from being bishops. What give up the pointy hat and become pew fodder!? Not likely. Most of them would rather be big fish in a small pond. Thirdly, for all the ecumenical chit chat the Anglican and Episcopal churches would not hand over a thing--not one key to one building, no access to pension plans, not sharing of premises, no severance pay for clergy. Nothing. Does anyone seriously think that the Church of England or the Episcopal Church are going to come to some sort of agreement with Rome by which dissident clergy and people can just transfer over to Rome lock stock and barrel?
But even if Rome provides some way for some breakaway Anglican group to come into full communion, all it would do is split that breakaway group. Those who want to be Catholics will accept it, but most Anglicans (even in the breakaway group) will just split off and join one of the other schisms or start another one. People on both sides of the Tiber should be realistic: most Anglicans (of whatever stripe) don't want to be Catholics otherwise guess what? They'd either be Catholic or be lined up to join their local RCIA.
So this is the underlying reason why it won't fly, and why most Anglicans won't buy it; and this is why: because they haven't already. Where are the Anglicans out there who can tell us what they want that Rome has not already provided? What is it? Married clergy? Got it. Their own liturgy? Got it. Their own buildings? Got it. What they really want is for Rome to say, "OK then. Your orders are valid after all. You are Catholic after all. You are priests after all. We were wrong. Your church can continue to exist and be like one of the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches or be a personal prelature."
Well, that's not going to happen, and even if it did happen I'll tell you what the Anglicans would do: Most of them would stay put in their little Anglican schisms and smile and say, "See, we told you we were Catholics all along..." But because it's not going to happen they'll stay put anyway and keep saying, "However, I think I would like to respectfully disagree with the Holy Father, you see, I believe my orders are valid and I really am a priest."
8 comments:
In area's of high anglo-catholic populations the Local bishops should ask one of the more traditional priests to celebrate the Anglican Use Mass once a week, advertise it to Anglo-Catholics, offer RCIA for the Anglican Use group. Those who want to be catholics will come, those who don't wont. Best solution in my mind.
Who owns the church building in the Anglican community? Is it the diocese or the parish?
Baron Korf,
It depends. The current battles within the Episcopal Church concern the Dennis Canon, which argues that all property is held in trust of the Episcopal Church.
Now, some parishes keep their building by working out deals with their bishop. Most continuing Anglican churches require that parishes own their own property -- that is, they aren't at risk of losing their buildings. I can't say what the rules are in other countries.
What is Jesus asking of the individual,be they whatever religion?I know parts of my own revealed fleshly nature regarding seeking worldly security in people,places and things.They never supply my need.But then again,I have an infinite appetite buried deep in my being.
Jesus,the God who all this life is about was born in a stable,laid in an animals bed.He rode into Jerusalem on a 'liturgical' donkey,not a finely dressed stallion(which would have been more in fitting with His Kingship).He elevated humble people,places and things to show us that it does not matter what the outside of the bowl looks like on earth,it is our obedience that matters.If it gets in the way of you and God,get rid of it! Our Lady is powerful in helping us to let go of any stumbling block.Ask Jesus to introduce you,according to His Will.God alone will,and indeed must suffice.We won't take our preferred rites of service with us when we die,nor even have our bodies,just dust and whatever treasures we have collected for Eternity within our souls.
"And there is a day coming, when the cause of Christ will appear as glorious, as some now think it mean and contemptible. May we think of that season, and view every earthly object as we shall do at that great day."
from Matthew Henry's concise commentary on Mk8v34-38.
By the way,in the above comment,I was referring to Christians who are considering converting to Catholicism and are held back due to worldly concerns.
Dear Father Dwight: I have come across your site and blog and have read it with interest.
From my viewing, which I admit hasn't been forensic, but what jumps out at me as consistent themes that you write about are the issue of Anglo-Catholics and their stance in respect of the Roman Catholic Church, and the issue about sexuality, particularly homosexuality (which I note you on a number of occasions denigrate with your own created word 'homosex'.
As to the former, I am delighted for you that you have found joy and peace in your personal pilgrimage and have found somewhere where you feel you should be. Your pilgrimage will have taken time, faith, patience. I just don't understand why you can't exhibit some generosity of spirit to those who are still on their journey. They may not get where you have got. But, do try and give them some generous benefit of the doubt, recoginising that as Christians they are good willed people who are trying as best they can to follow the promptings of the Spirit for them, and even if they do not arrive where you think they should arrive, and struggle along the way, please try and find some Christian generosity of spirit and patience and kindness in your comments and attitudes to them.
As to issues of sexuality, I detect a nasty tone in your writings. As with the previous issue, perhaps you could recognise that people in their sexuality are on a journey, and it is their journey and their life and their relationships. You should not presume to make harsh judgements on them. Leave whatever judgement that needs to be made to the Lord. I sense also that this is an issue that you and others really need to get over. In a world where so much more needs the attention of good Christians and Catholics like you, why not spend your energies on those issues. I worry also about that underlying contempt, aggressiveness, and vitriol that I detect in some of your writing. It smacks of hatred. That is not worthy of a good Catholic and Christian.
Just some thoughts from a Catholic, who tries to live his life according to the Gospel and the teaching of the Church, and recognises that others are struggling along with their own pilgrimage. But presuming not to make judgements, condemn or allow myself to hate others
I am interested to see that servingblogger fails to see that it is to some degree false sexuality concepts that are bringing down the Anglican Church.
Failure to accept God's clear teachings about man and woman, marriage and the correct use of the sexual relationship is one of chief destroyers of the faith in Anglicanism.
In the city I live in, the only High Church Anglican Churches, in an otherwise Calvinist Low Church diocese, are also meeting places for active homosexuals. They love the liturgy. But what does that count for when they are living a lifestyle condemned by Holy Scripture?
This is a real case of having the "outward form" of supposedly Catholic faith but lacking the "inward substance".
I, for one, would want the Catholic Church to be very careful before accepting large groups of Anglicans, to make sure that they really did accept ALL the Church's moral teachings - not just the ones they feel like accepting.
Possibly a bit late to add to this now, however.. serving blogger.. I read Fr's posts regularly on both those topics and happen to think his writing/commentary is at its best when he's addressing those two topics. They are both acutely relevant today and threaten to cause deeper divisions within Christianity.
Fr Dwight's observations I find are not only founded on true and charitable church teaching (The truth being love) but are presented by him in such a way that they are simple to grasp. As he says, when people try and make complications for themselves to justify hidden agendas, we come unstuck.
If he appears impatient or aggressive, well, we are living in times when people, having rejected truth are itching for some new and different ideas that will appeal to them. His stance is straight down the line because that is how Jesus played it too. If there IS anger in anything he writes, that too, is a sign of passion and a more passionate fighter for the truths and apologetics of The Church today you will search far to find, than Fr D.
In my own experience, it is the very people who cry "uncharitable" or similar, who refuse to bow the knee to the truth in front of their own eyes. Many of the great teachers and preachers (today being the feast of one of them, St Dominic) were called such things.
I would encourage you to re-read some of those posts which upset you, in a spirit of prayer, and see if they might reveal something really worthwhile to you. The truth is: we all struggle, almost all of the time.
Best of luck.
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