I'm already hearing of the conspiracy theories around Bin Laden's death: "he's not really dead. They only killed his double." or "He was dead long ago. This is all a publicity stunt to get Obama re-elected." or whatever...
The thing which makes the story true is the inconsistency in the account. First he was killed in a firefight, then there wasn't really much resistance. He shot back and used his young wife as a shield, then he didn't after all. He was shot because he resisted arrest, then he was executed after being captured. The Pakistanis knew about him being there. No they didn't. They helped and gave support for the attack. No, they knew nothing about it.
If there was a genuine conspiracy of some sort the stories would be more watertight. It's the inconsistencies and contradictions that make it seem genuine. That's what really happens in tense, traumatic events--different stories emerge, different perspectives are given. Details are perceived differently by different people. Complicated reasons arise for different versions to be given. Different agendas come up which drive the narrative.
It's the same with the gospel accounts of the resurrection. There are seemingly contradictory details. Memories are skewed, perspectives are biased, accounts vary.
That's what makes it authentic. A conspiracy would have all the details tied up neatly and everybody would be on board.
Dear Father,
ReplyDeleteI was skeptical when first announced--it was just too convenient, too many people profited from it, the body was buried at sea quickly after the fact, etc. So I maintained a healthy skepticism even through the too rapid DNA testing. But if we hadn't gotten him, we would have heard from him--he's not a mouse running into his hole.
I had my doubts, but in the course of the day came to your conclusion through the preponderance of the evidence.
Thanks for posting this.
shalom,
Steven
I think disposing of the body the way they did was weird, but conspiracy? In addition to what you said, can you imagine how many people would have to be in on it? Impossible for that many people to stay silent for long, if ever.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure this holds. Sure, we tend to use a similar method of argument when making a case for the historicity of the resurrection, but there's a crucial difference.
ReplyDeleteWe know how to make stories shoddy enough for modern audiences. The ancients, as far as we can tell, weren't that prescient. If I wanted to make up a lie like this, I'd make sure it was just this woolly, as then I'd be able to say 'Of course it's true; you think I'd make up something as crazy as this.'
Not to say that I doubt this, let alone the Resurrection -- just that I think the argument is flawed.
'It's the same with the gospel accounts of the resurrection. There are seemingly contradictory details. Memories are skewed, perspectives are biased, accounts vary.'
ReplyDeletePeople are trying to work out facts that are not truly relevant. Rejoice, in the fact, that He allows forgiveness, of sin.He breaks the bond. Osama, had a mother. She must have grown him, in her womb. I am the mother of seven boys, five living. No mother wants a bad son. We should show some mercy to her. What he did, on that day. God have mercy.All those souls.
I like the parallel, but I don't know about how much it holds, too. Take for instance the biblical story of Susanna (in Daniel 13): Daniel examines and judges the old men's accounts by their inconsistencies.
ReplyDeleteI can understand that some emotional can skew the retelling a true story, but the inconsistencies are often seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story and are independent of the veracity of the event.
(Unless I am told otherwise, I would attribute the retelling of the events of Easter Sunday to the length of time that had elapsed between the event and the writing of the glorious Resurrection. How to reconcile this with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, I must consider and read the fathers/doctors of the Church more.)
i reckon it was really the Russians
ReplyDeletewe are all chummy now
the like our beeswax candles!
ever so pure
The difference is that no one claims that the Holy Spirit inspired the various inconsistent press releases. If there were true inconsistencies in the Gospel accounts of the Resurrection, it really would have disastrous consequences for Catholic doctrine.
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for Obama to release the Death Certificate (Long Form, of course).
ReplyDeleteFather, perhaps the conspiracy is from a different front. Obama's lack of consistency about showing the photos of the dead warlord Osama and the US prisoners of war in Cuba ought to make one wonder what his real motivation is.
ReplyDeleteI suspect he is Muslim at heart. Not that he is a practicing Muslim, but that his sensibilities are Muslim. They certainly are not Christian. Obama is the guy who spent decades at Rev. Wright's church of hate and then stated that he never heard Wright say a disparaging remark from the pulpit. Maybe he told the truth, and he was just never present.
Obama has left religion behind in his quest for power, fame and money, but he has the grown man's lament for his lost innocence--the innocence of a small Muslim boy.
Obama has broken many (most?) of his campaign promises. He has, for political purposes, falsified his religious affiliation (he has none).
I don't believe we as a people ought to take his word without proof on any thing. Show the pictures, Mr. President.
Everyone needs to chill out about Obama, lest they sin against the truth.
ReplyDeleteHe isn't a Muslim, he isn't the Antichrist, he isn't a King, he isn't a puppet of the devil, and he isn't evil incarnate.
Such lies are sins against the truth.
The Osama conspiracy theories remind me of the hypothesises about the Resurrection of Jesus. People say He wasn't really dead, or His Corpse was stolen, or the Apostles were hallucinating, or He was an alien. Thanks be to God we know the truth!
ReplyDeleteI think, as strange as it sounds, that Osama's death is no longer the main issue to consider. The main issue is that the US government has gotten so arrogant, that after expending billions of dollars and many American lives because of this man, they now tell the American people that we are not important enough for them to show proof.
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad that Caitlin was able to help you out and post this for you.
ReplyDeleteWhat has really happened to Osama bin Laden? Is our government lying to us about the recent capture and killing of the man we have spent millions of dollars trying to capture, even offering to pay $25 million for information leading to the capture or killing of this man in 2001, and never getting a taker in the last 10 years? Finally he is "discovered" and killed when an American president needed some good news. Coincidental? Announced, albeit, it on Divine Mercy Sunday. Also International Workers' Day, an important holiday for communists, socialist and anarchists.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in July 2001 Osama bin Laden was treated for end-stage renal disease in the American Hospital in Dubai and ordered 2 dialysis machines to take home with him. Former CIA case officer Robert Baer said in 2008, referring to bin Laden on NPR radio interview, "Of course he is dead." In March 2009, former foreign service officer Angelo Codevilla published an essay in the American Spectator entitled “Osama bin Elvis.” Explaining his title, Codevilla wrote, “Seven years after Osama bin Laden's last verifiable appearance among the living, there is more evidence for Elvis's presence among us than for his.”
There are many more news reports and people, even like Oliver North, who claim Osama bin Laden died years ago, which anyone can look up and choose to believe or not.
And there we all are. We will choose to believe what we want to by what we have read or heard.
As for me and my house, I remain a skeptic that bin Laden died recently. That our government might be lying to us does not surprise me. It is not the first time, nor the last time. Government officials are notorious for lying in every age and every country. But above all we are dealing with powers and principalities beyond our intelligence and control. May God grant us wisdom to do right in His eyes and have mercy upon us all.
I'm sure Bernard Lonergan, SJ, would have waxed lyrical on this one, if he was still alive...
ReplyDeleteBut Marija, how do you know that Bin Laden's so called 'treatment' for end stage renal disease is true? All the other statements that Bin Laden was dead? Maybe they were disinformation to throw the enemy off track.
ReplyDeleteOnce you start doubting the official line anything could be true or false.
That doesn't make the official line true. It just reminds us that conspiracy theories are a waste of time.
Fr. Longenecker, you are right. I do not know whether what I have read about bin Laden's poor kidney health is true or not. I have not known him personally and was never there to see these things for myself.
ReplyDeleteI also was not there at the supposed killing of Osama bin Laden, so I cannot know for sure if any of the reports are true.
Believe the official government story line? Since the official line keeps changing, which one do you believe to be true at this point in time? Do you have a favorite one?
Like I wrote previously, we all choose to believe what we want to believe by what we have seen, heard, or read, which could lead us to a great discussion on how to do this wisely, if that is at all possible with sinners.
I remain in doubt regarding any of the government tales, nor do I believe any of the other sources writing of illness and/or death of Osama bin Laden. I can and do wonder what the truth might be.
But God is true, and every man a liar. Romans 3:4
"It just reminds us that conspiracy theories are a waste of time"
ReplyDeleteFather, I don't intend to sound offensive, but you are saying that you know the thruth about this? That all the facts that show that the 9 11 was a inside job, that all the facts showing that maçons+satanists rule the countries are completely coincidences/lies/whatever else it could be? Just something to be laughed about since it sounds too unbelievebla?
Father,
ReplyDeleteOne of your commenters mentions the poor health of Osama bin Laden as potential proof that he's been dead quite awhile. I have to say that I agree with her and will add this:
Benazir Bhutto when on the BBC right before her death and was matter of factly talking about the man who killed murdered Osama. Not only was she matter of fact about it, but the anchor from the BBC didn't challenge the assertion at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg
In the end, I'm happy he can't hurt anyone anymore. Just not so sure when it actually happened.
@ Wafkowski
ReplyDeleteYou said:
I suspect he is Muslim at heart. Not that he is a practicing Muslim, but that his sensibilities are Muslim.
President Obama does not make decisions in isolation. He has many advisors. I doubt this was motivated by any sort of muslim sentiment. For most men at that level of politics, religion is merely a lever.
It's really more a matter of "what's true?" than it is about "conspiracy theories."
ReplyDeleteIs what we're being told true?
I don't believe our government always tells us the truth. History shows that to be the case. Often the cause has been for betterment of some good. Sometimes not.
Has our government over tha past 10-20 years been a consistently honest one? If this puported death raid true? If not, is it for the betterment our country?
Those are my questions, and far better to ask them then to put the blinders on simply because others may dismiss a healthy independent, inquiring mind as mind as one prone to fancy.
I think fear is behind those who go too much for conspiracies, as well as those who too quickly dismiss uncomfortable notions.
And the only antidote to fear is the Light and the Truth. And on that note, to quote the song, "It's a migty world we live in, but the truth it, we're only passong through."
The world aside, I'll do my best to keep my sights on the end game. (Not some globalist grand stategy end game, but The End Game.)
I have to agree with the commenter Greg on this one, but I want to take it one step further.
ReplyDeleteJust because people don't necessarily believe the Pentagon's story doesn't mean they're conspiracy theorists. This was a military operation, and the Pentagon will release what they want us to know.
The story could be 100% true, or 100% lie. I think it's somewhere in between the two, because of the kinds of conflicting details we're getting.
The details, however, don't matter. What we're being told is that they've attained an objective, and Bin Laden's being dead right now, regardless how or when it happened, is key to that objective.
It does not take hundreds of people coordinating stories, but a handful of high-ranking officers giving orders down through the ranks, which are followed without question because that's what the military is trained to do--ask any solder the penalty for insubordination.
Is this therefore a "conspiracy theory"? Absolutely not. This is the M.O. of the US Military, because we don't need to know the details. We only need to know what they think we need to know, and that's what you're seeing on television.
Time to let this one go.