Interesting question! Because of Satan, I have a nagging fear that even those in Heaven can lose their salvation should they chose to do so. I hope I am wrong! I don't want to think that eternity with Christ could be lost--- for if so, I am sure to screw it up. I await answers to your questions with eagerness, and please Father, give us your own answer at some point.
So far I have read and understood the following things about Satan:
Satan is an Angel. An Angel "knows" all consequences of a decision and therefore when it decides, it is final. So I would say Satan does not repent, then if above is true, he would have "known" before and would have hold true to God.
I guess with Satan and his Demons, there is only hatred and hurting.
I believe everyone is correct so far in their comments. Satan cannot "change his mind." I recall reading from one of Frank Sheed's classics that unlike our mortal existence which is characterized by constant material change pure spiritual creatures (angels) come into existence in something I recall described as "aveternity." Its particulars evade me so early on a Sunday morning. I too await Father's response.
Great question Father! Just the thing for a wet Sunday afternoon (well it is here in the UK anyway).
I would answer the question with another one, can satan worship?
Can he kneel and confess with forked tongue, that Jesus Christ is Lord?
Cos that's the ultimate deal required for all created beings eventually, sinner or saint! It will happen, Jesus declares it will.
(Romans 14:11)
New Living Translation For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"
It will mean a state of heaven for some and pure hell, for others.
Can Satan repent? I believe that he "Can" or "Could." Does that mean that he will repent or that his sins are forgivable? I think not to both. Jesus Christ died for the souls of past present and future human beings that repent of their sins. Satan is not human and is a different case, as far as our limited knowledge here on earth tells us. I agree with Roger Michael to some extent, an Angel knows the consequences, good and bad, of its actions. However, Satan was able to have one change of heart when he turned from a loyal follower of the Lord to a betrayer. If one change is possible, then another should be possible. However, as I said before, I'm not sure if Satan's sins are forgivable. That's up to God, alone. So, can Satan repent, I think so, but not very likely, since he's already been condemned and is consumed by hatred and evil. Would he be forgiven, now that may be another question for another time.
I remember reading that Satan cannot repent, yet at the same time St Thomas (SCG Book 3) tells us that even the devil is not purely evil, (speaking of course in the philosophical sense).
H.Hobbit, Satan has made his eternal choice and Scripture makes it clear that it is forever. However, those who have chosen God, remain faithful and get to Heaven cannot lose eternity in Heaven once they are there.
While we are on earth we have to, as St Paul says,"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling". Therefore we must not take God or our salvation for granted. Nevertheless, both Scripture and the constant teaching of the Church, make it absolutely clear that, once we have passed this life, faced judgement, Purgatory and arrived in Heaven, then we are perfected, we no longer have the weaknesses and openness to temptation we had in our earthly life. We cannot lose that union with God, it is forever.
Something rather beautiful and awesome to contemplate!
Does repentance require grace? I think so, and since Satan has rejected God Himself, he has rejected Grace Itself, he cannot pull himself out of the hole he's put himself into.
This seems a lot like the "unforgivable sin" in scripture.
Mankind, as long as it is on Earth, is subject to time. Time is part of corporeal creation. Angels, being pure spirits, are not subject to time. The revolt of Satan and his angels is not to be understood as an event in time but time-transcending. There is no before or after for Satan - he made his choice once and forever. So no, he cannot repent, because his revolt and fall takes place now and forever.
Hey, why's everybody picking on the ol' guy? I mean, he's a loveable sort who maybe eats too much and just because you didn't get what you wanted for last Christmas is no reason to... oh, craaaap, I thought we were talking about Santa.
No, he can’t - as St. Thomas pointed out in excruciating detail in his Summa Theologica (1a. QQ. 50 seq. “On the Angels”).
Short answer: ”Therefore, the good angels who adhered to justice, were confirmed therein; whereas the wicked ones, sinning, are obstinate in sin.”
In this age of relativism it is hard for us to get our minds around absolutes, or understand eternity and reconcile the justice and mercy of God. We make excuses for ourselves and others and think God can ‘change His mind’.
Maybe, since the miracle of the grace of God is that He can make the past as though it had never been. However, thoughts of Satan’s repentance and hope of same seem to me to be unhealthy and dangerous. This discussion just might be very pleasing to Satan.
Good comments here! I think the story Jesus told us in Luke 16:19-31 about Lazarus and the rich man could be applied here. As Jesus said, there is a chasm between Heaven and Hell/Hades that literally or figurativly can not be passed or crossed. It seems to me that you only get a one-way ticket to your eternal destination
I don't believe he can, as he made his decision already. All the angels were given one chance to worship God or turn away, and just as, say, Michael couldn't decide to turn away from God now, Satan can't choose to turn back.
Nope. As we understand it (or, as I understand my theology teacher), angels are created and in that moment choose to obey or not obey God: because they are out of "chronos" there's no dithering, no going back, no forgiveness. So, no: Satan rebelled, that was that, all that time you spent praying for his repentance is time you'll never get back.
Victor: Judas is a different case – in more ways than one.
We really don’t know that he went to Hell, whereas we do know Lucifer is there. Our Lord seemed to indicate that but his words could be taken to mean his earthly life, not eternal damnation. We all betray Our Lord in many ways throughout our lives, but we have the opportunity to repent. Judas did recognize that he had done wrong but fell into despair and killed himself. But he still could have repented in the last seconds of his life.
A story is told of St. John Vianney about a woman who came to him troubled because her husband had committed suicide by throwing himself off a bridge into a river. The Cure of Ars told her not to be troubled, that her husband had repented “between the bridge and the water…”
There is always an opportunity to repent in this life, but we can’t live our lives in the expectation that we will repent at the last second. We could be so far from God by then that we might not even recognize the opportunity He was giving us.
Pretty sure the answer is no; he's already made his choice and is condemned forever. Same with all the demons. Right?
ReplyDeleteHe has already been damned. His chance is over. Jesus stated pretty clearly where this guy is.
ReplyDeleteInteresting question! Because of Satan, I have a nagging fear that even those in Heaven can lose their salvation should they chose to do so. I hope I am wrong! I don't want to think that eternity with Christ could be lost--- for if so, I am sure to screw it up.
ReplyDeleteI await answers to your questions with eagerness, and please Father, give us your own answer at some point.
I believe he has already faced his "Particular Judgment."
ReplyDeleteHe chose, now he lives with the consequences.
ReplyDeleteSo far I have read and understood the following things about Satan:
ReplyDeleteSatan is an Angel. An Angel "knows" all consequences of a decision and therefore when it decides, it is final.
So I would say Satan does not repent, then if above is true, he would have "known" before and would have hold true to God.
I guess with Satan and his Demons, there is only hatred and hurting.
I believe everyone is correct so far in their comments. Satan cannot "change his mind." I recall reading from one of Frank Sheed's classics that unlike our mortal existence which is characterized by constant material change pure spiritual creatures (angels) come into existence in something I recall described as "aveternity." Its particulars evade me so early on a Sunday morning. I too await Father's response.
ReplyDeleteGreat question Father! Just the thing for a wet Sunday afternoon (well it is here in the UK anyway).
ReplyDeleteI would answer the question with another one, can satan worship?
Can he kneel and confess with forked tongue, that Jesus Christ is Lord?
Cos that's the ultimate deal required for all created beings eventually, sinner or saint! It will happen, Jesus declares it will.
(Romans 14:11)
New Living Translation
For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the LORD, every knee will bend to me, and every tongue will confess and give praise to God.'"
It will mean a state of heaven for some and pure hell, for others.
Can Satan repent? I believe that he "Can" or "Could." Does that mean that he will repent or that his sins are forgivable? I think not to both. Jesus Christ died for the souls of past present and future human beings that repent of their sins. Satan is not human and is a different case, as far as our limited knowledge here on earth tells us. I agree with Roger Michael to some extent, an Angel knows the consequences, good and bad, of its actions. However, Satan was able to have one change of heart when he turned from a loyal follower of the Lord to a betrayer. If one change is possible, then another should be possible. However, as I said before, I'm not sure if Satan's sins are forgivable. That's up to God, alone. So, can Satan repent, I think so, but not very likely, since he's already been condemned and is consumed by hatred and evil. Would he be forgiven, now that may be another question for another time.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading that Satan cannot repent, yet at the same time St Thomas (SCG Book 3) tells us that even the devil is not purely evil, (speaking of course in the philosophical sense).
ReplyDeleteHe wouldn't and he won't.
ReplyDeleteH.Hobbit, Satan has made his eternal choice and Scripture makes it clear that it is forever. However, those who have chosen God, remain faithful and get to Heaven cannot lose eternity in Heaven once they are there.
ReplyDeleteWhile we are on earth we have to, as St Paul says,"Work out your salvation with fear and trembling". Therefore we must not take God or our salvation for granted. Nevertheless, both Scripture and the constant teaching of the Church, make it absolutely clear that, once we have passed this life, faced judgement, Purgatory and arrived in Heaven, then we are perfected, we no longer have the weaknesses and openness to temptation we had in our earthly life. We cannot lose that union with God, it is forever.
Something rather beautiful and awesome to contemplate!
Does repentance require grace? I think so, and since Satan has rejected God Himself, he has rejected Grace Itself, he cannot pull himself out of the hole he's put himself into.
ReplyDeleteThis seems a lot like the "unforgivable sin" in scripture.
His pride will not let him.
ReplyDeleteMankind, as long as it is on Earth, is subject to time. Time is part of corporeal creation. Angels, being pure spirits, are not subject to time. The revolt of Satan and his angels is not to be understood as an event in time but time-transcending. There is no before or after for Satan - he made his choice once and forever. So no, he cannot repent, because his revolt and fall takes place now and forever.
ReplyDeleteHebrews 6:4-8 probably applies, at least in principle.
ReplyDelete"Evil" turned around is "Live".....so...maybe...
ReplyDelete"With God, nothing is impossible."
Luke 1:37
Have a Blessed Christmas!
No. He made his choice.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI do not think it is possible. Satan has already condemned himself
ReplyDeleteHey, why's everybody picking on the ol' guy? I mean, he's a loveable sort who maybe eats too much and just because you didn't get what you wanted for last Christmas is no reason to... oh, craaaap, I thought we were talking about Santa.
ReplyDelete:-)
No, he can’t - as St. Thomas pointed out in excruciating detail in his Summa Theologica (1a. QQ. 50 seq. “On the Angels”).
ReplyDeleteShort answer: ”Therefore, the good angels who adhered to justice, were confirmed therein; whereas the wicked ones, sinning, are obstinate in sin.”
In this age of relativism it is hard for us to get our minds around absolutes, or understand eternity and reconcile the justice and mercy of God. We make excuses for ourselves and others and think God can ‘change His mind’.
He can’t – but we can, for now…
Maybe, since the miracle of the grace of God is that He can make the past as though it had never been. However, thoughts of Satan’s repentance and hope of same seem to me to be unhealthy and dangerous. This discussion just might be very pleasing to Satan.
ReplyDeleteGood comments here!
ReplyDeleteI think the story Jesus told us in Luke 16:19-31 about Lazarus and the rich man could be applied here.
As Jesus said, there is a chasm between Heaven and Hell/Hades that literally or figurativly can not be passed or crossed. It seems to me that you only get a one-way ticket to your eternal destination
I don't believe he can, as he made his decision already. All the angels were given one chance to worship God or turn away, and just as, say, Michael couldn't decide to turn away from God now, Satan can't choose to turn back.
ReplyDeleteNope. As we understand it (or, as I understand my theology teacher), angels are created and in that moment choose to obey or not obey God: because they are out of "chronos" there's no dithering, no going back, no forgiveness. So, no: Satan rebelled, that was that, all that time you spent praying for his repentance is time you'll never get back.
ReplyDelete"...all that time you spent praying for his repentance is time you'll never get back."
ReplyDeleteHow true, bbmoe... but it just occured to me - what about Judas Iskariot? Can we pray for his repentance, or is it just as moot?
Victor: Judas is a different case – in more ways than one.
ReplyDeleteWe really don’t know that he went to Hell, whereas we do know Lucifer is there. Our Lord seemed to indicate that but his words could be taken to mean his earthly life, not eternal damnation. We all betray Our Lord in many ways throughout our lives, but we have the opportunity to repent. Judas did recognize that he had done wrong but fell into despair and killed himself. But he still could have repented in the last seconds of his life.
A story is told of St. John Vianney about a woman who came to him troubled because her husband had committed suicide by throwing himself off a bridge into a river. The Cure of Ars told her not to be troubled, that her husband had repented “between the bridge and the water…”
There is always an opportunity to repent in this life, but we can’t live our lives in the expectation that we will repent at the last second. We could be so far from God by then that we might not even recognize the opportunity He was giving us.